Unity Linux direction

[DidouPh]

DidouPh ,
You really should take your agenda elsewhere.  Just because you got the email doesn't mean your venomous remarks are warranted.

Exactly.  Thank you.

Can you please try and add something to the discussion and topic rather than focuss on the way you expect me to write in this tread ?

Grow up !

[Spiral of Hope]

login id 815/816/817 we have a troll on this topic ... that guy is the same registering for trolling ... and i don't even need to be admin to see that !

The registrations are from different times, very different IPs and very different hosts.  Is there something else I could look at or do to confirm your statement?

[Spiral of Hope]

KISS !
the problem is not one of personal taste ...
Those names are really ... sorry ...

You're just saying you don't like that list.  But unless you suggest something you /do/ like, you're not being productive.

thanks for removing my mod bit ... it only took 1.5 month

You're welcome.  We've busy doing more important things.  It's tough with only a couple of part time admins.

What will be the focus of the mag?  Unity only?  Unity and it's branches?  Linux in general with a Unity and branches as a "dedicated" section of the mag?

From what's been discussed so far, it will cover both unity and its branches.  There was a suggestion from a while back that we at least have a column covering other interesting news in the Linux world.  So the cool features which other distributions have would have reviews and news.

Guys, no offence ment but before thinking about writing a magazine ( which indeed ) is a good thing in itself, shouldn't you pick a logo and get a hold on standard communication interfaces?

No and no.

A logo has nothing to do with the team structure or website software for a magazine.

I'm not sure what you mean by standard communication interfaces.  Please say that a different way.

looking at what is going on, i'm happy not to be part of thé team. It allows me to tell you that you look like a band of unorganized nerds!
And that does not make me happy. I feel really sorry for you because thé project is butyfull. But lack of action end up in ... Nothing... Not even silence. Excess of action end in failure.

This project was inovative and generous in its form, aims and direction.
What i see now is a mimic of mypclinuxos...

I have no clue where any of this is coming from.

... if you plan on releasing a mag before being able to stream information...

Who said we were planning on releasing a mag?

This is a name vote.  Then comes setting up domain or subdomain - which relies on this - and then the website software, internal communication and processes etc, and all kinds of other things which need to happen before a release.

Does this also answer your (and newmikey's) comments about having "the code" / "the material" before choosing a name?

And to make things clear... Its not because i don't agrée with you that i won't be back! Its neither because you don't follow m'y opinions. Its because there is nô unity in this team...

You're gruff and insulting attitude pushes everyone's buttons.  It's this attitude of yours and your public insulting that got you your original one month "time out".  Then you decided to leave.  So I don't see where you got your "there is no unity in this team".

You all want to be equal and don't take into account thé fact that unity is not homogeneity. You need to disagree. But You need to listen to one another too. Being together won't help unless its more than a matter of fact but a real necessity...

I think I understand what you're saying.  I think we have two problems
- Limited expertise
- Limited time

What seems to create that homogeneity is..
- many will agree with others because they do not have expertise.  So they trust the people with expertise - they do not disagree.
- many tasks only have one or two people working on them, because there are only a few people who have the time to help.  So others do not participate (or disagree).

So for each task we end up with a benevolent dictator working on it until others have more time and desire to share their opinions.  I think this is the problem with something difficult like the idea of being documentation-driven or the QA/workflow process.

I don't know if there is a solution to this.

[DidouPh]

spiral...
with all due respect ...
this is not a trial !

you answered wisely to what i pointed out as being lack of team efficiency ... there is nothing more in this post than the massive air movement that you and some other member have been able to produce latel.

still no content but pretenders and pridefull people unable to WAIT !

as i told you ... as a user ... i want you to stop telling me you have something, i would like you to show me something.

according to what is all over the website... except the really good work made by the tech team (packagers) and by the web dev team ... there is only chit chat and poor efficiency...

to be more precise ... if you want to built a community on more than geekery ... first get content, then built upon it. like the devs are doing ... Stop running all around like a jerk as if you could handle everything. We all know you can't and will never be able ...

As a matter of fact ... you made a pretty good demonstration of the fact that i'm not right all the time and that guessing is not good for building up an opinion... so stick your opinions where they should have been kept.

about the real topic !

I think that if those names are the ones you got from all your brainstorming that you should have kept them for you instead of brandishing those as proof of the hard work you produced, because those don't demonstrate the quality of the work this team should be able to produce ! Those name can't even please me or anyone but a country men illiterate and unconcerned by linux and free software ... (maybe) and only nerds could find those kool because those names are impersonal like you intervention to try and save what can be save of your too early announce of a magazine publication.

In the end do as you wish and if by luck you manage to produce a mag ... kool ... but i hope you will have managed to rise the buzz about unity far over LFS ... or really ... this team will look really like i said before ... a band of geeks in a cave believing they are building the best software ever but are just a club of fans gathered around some to polite to kick them talented coders ...

This is my lkast intervention on this forum ...

think about that !

[newmikey]

I can see a lot of things happened when I was not looking and that includes a temporary ban of somebody I respect. I will not pretend I understand and I cannot judge either. Therefore I will go back into observing mode.

The remarks of "PCLinuxOS spy" disturb me and should not be tolerated. It IS Linux, isn't it? I am still excited about the idea behind Unity, I think it can deliver and has great potential. The fact that I or Didouph currently use PCLinuxOS (an excellent distro) does not automatically disqualify us - would you prefer we switch to SuSE temporarily until Unity is released?

I hope this kind of attitude will not lead to the disintegration of this project - this is not about "us vs. them", it's not called Unity for nothing.

[Heliooos]

It is a pity that the discussion is going in this direction.  

So I feel I must lighten it a little bit...  

If someone here was called "Pclinuxos spy" than I am double agent because I am also using Pclinuxos and even registered both on the Pclinuxos Czech forum and here  

So please leave such terms and focuse on the topic - magazine name.

PS: for such OT discussions, we have section called "pub" on the Czech forum. In case that some people need it, create it also here  

[KDulcimer]

I can see a lot of things happened when I was not looking and that includes a temporary ban of somebody I respect. I will not pretend I understand and I cannot judge either. Therefore I will go back into observing mode.

Newmikey, you're someone I respect, so I'll give you the best explanation I can. DidouPh was barred for one month as a disciplinary measure because of a totally uncalled-for and completely unacceptable attack he made on another developer. It was decided that we would use a "3 strikes and you're out" disciplinary method. The first strike, you're barred from development for a month. Second time, three months. Third time, it's permanent.

With that said, this thread is nowhere near its starting point and I'll have to split it.

[KDulcimer]

Newmikey, I just want to add in a couple more things.

First, you mentioned that you were concerned that DidouPh is no longer with Unity, because DidouPh is a hard worker. Let me assure you that was never a question. He is both a hard worker and provides good quality of code. However, his inability to get along with another led to his being barred for a month.

Second, DidouPh was not the only one at fault in the matter which led to his discipline. He and the one whom he attacked had been fighting for a while. However, after a while the other basically said "Fine. Why don't we just not speak to each other?" There was silence for a while, and then DidouPh launched his attack which led to the disciplinary action.

Third, DidouPh decided of his own will to leave when he was given the disciplinary action.

[CPUnltd]

so now that we have aired out that laundry, where are we headed now?

[Spiral of Hope]

This is my lkast intervention on this forum ...

Ok, so I won't bother responding.

---

so now that we have aired out that laundry, where are we headed now?

1. Tasks on the top of this list: http://issues.unity-linux.org/ .. especially the QA-driven workflow.

2. Better organization of team members.  This begins with understanding everyone's skills and interests, and making sure everyone has credentials for all the tools they need.  A couple of new people still don't have the basics set up yet.

3. Understanding more about having the whole project be documentation-driven.  This is a big scary topic I won't be able to help with.  It's way over my head.  I looked for a task on this, and I remember there being one.. I couldn't find it though.  I still have archived emails on this topic, so the conversations aren't lost.

But the genesis of this thread was about the magazine being built before (presumably) a public alpha.  I see no problem with releasing the magazine before an iso and even before a logo.  There are lots of interesting things which have been locked away in forum and email threads which ought to be summarized.  This includes a breakdown of the technologies we use and the things we've modified to suit us.  But dai wants to wait for a logo so we can have a consistent theme between issues.

Still, all of this planning ahead is a Good Thing, since we have non-developers who could be working on docs instead of waiting around for a public release and then constantly playing docs-catchup.

[CPUnltd]

found this info in the dev forum and figured it was worth dropping here...  This is DEFINITELY something worth looking at for our setup...

http://peomeint.blogspot.com/2006/08/beyond-tdd-documentation-driven.html

provided here:
http://development.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,603.0/msg,2501.html

[gemini]

Dang... I always miss the good threads 

In defense of all our inside issues, I find it painful to our project to lose any devs for any reason. All are vital to the progress and quality.
But, the only place I see complete unity, is in the area of packaging. Those guys are plugging away and making great progress, while the rest of our depts are intermingling and over-dramatized theatrics.
Meaning, we are over-complicating the simplest tasks and getting on each other's nerves. This is the "dis-unity" Didouph refers to and I agree. We cannot afford any further ego-wars.

Starting to put information together for the mag should not be effected by the fact we have not yet a logo. But, a logo is needed and we all, (I the most) have been dragging feet to get one out.
Both the mag and logo issues are facing the very same dilemma... both processes are being made more complicated than they need to be.

The mag for Unity Linux, should, in my own opinion, be simply named "Unity Linux Magazine"
The logo project, was made far more complicated than it needed to be. We are a "non-profit" organization. Should we choose to use a logo which resembles one in use by a commercial entity, we can simply contact the company, explaining our position and ask if they feel it to be a threat. It's that simple
We need to get over these arguments of legalities and over-bearing, over-dramatic, deep artsy-fartsy subjects, and get moving.
As part of the GFX team, I have seen that we are holding up progress by trying to be too deep thinking. Branding is needed to complete the material for the project, but as long as we can create a logo that actually represents the symbolic equal to the meaning of Unity, we will be o.k.

In short, as far as the main point of this particular thread... I really do not understand the need for some "catchy" or "creative" name for the mag. Just name it after the project. It is far less confusing in the end. I am not even sure why we have two threads about the same subject, this is yet another way things are confused, and boards become un-navigable to new-comers.

[dillj]

to add some thoughts, inspirations..
http://theoden48.wordpress.com/2009/08/10/total-openness-equality-stalemate-and-anarchy/

So you and some friends have decided to launch an open source project. Sweet. Then among the many decisions you must make regarding the new project is organization. Just ‘how‘ will you organize the team(s) to get things done, and ‘how‘ will decisions be made, and ‘who‘ will control and safeguard the projects ‘stuff‘ and processes?

how do decisions get made at unity? do any get done? or are we happily plodding along into oblivion?

[KDulcimer]

Unity was started as an effort to develop an RPM-based distro with a democratic or at least a semi-democratic government. At this point, we've had issues with people dropping out of the project. There's one team where there were 3 people elected to share a position for a year. Two of those people left within 3 months. All efforts to replace those people have amounted to nothing, and there is still 1 person handling the task of the whole team.

Or you could look at documentation. Spiralofhope has been doing the great majority of work there.

Don't get me wrong-- I think this is a good debate to have and I'm glad these questions are being raised in a diligent, respectful manner. It's just that I think the answer to many of these issues is that we're undermanned in certain areas.

[CPUnltd]

we are doing what we feel we are capable of... I have no real regrets at this point and am looking forward to the future of this project, no matter who's a part of it...